Update on regs in BC.

Discussion in 'Dart Frogs General' started by snakemaster, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. RyMel

    RyMel Member

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    Re: BC exotics list is out

    TOTAL BS!
     
  2. pete arrows

    pete arrows Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    where is the logic behind this. it is well established that captive dart frogs of all species are completely harmless and I doubt anyone in Canada has any wild caught specimens of the ones banned (even those lose their toxicity after a few months in captivity). I would assume that the animal species in captivity that has the most incidents of dangerous behavior would be the dog. Have they banned those!
     
  3. Shade71

    Shade71 Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    I emailed my MLA asking how can they tell we had the animal before March 16 when they don't even ask us to get permits till November 01.

    His response...

    "From what I understand, the animals must have a tattoo, or microchip, plus photo evidence that they were acquired prior".

    Uh huh... ORLY?
    And we're being told this after the fact?
    I'm going to assume he's wrong, I've asked him to find out for sure.

    This should be interesting.
     
  4. mystah

    mystah Legendary Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    For the Record I don't live in BC....Few points though!!!

    How the heck do you tatoo and Microchip a Frog ...Seems the frogs are so small that the microchip would make them look deformed

    I will never understand why the government does anything...Can anyone believe that they are wasting YOUR tax dollars on this kind of legislation...and all for what??? I would actually like to know the how often or for that matter, the last time anyone was treated by our health care system because of any illness related to the hobby or Dart frogs in BC, Make it Canada...

    I wonder...

    Not even worth wasting the time typing about

    the only cool thing is that now since these species are ban, there is gonna be a black market or underground economy for the frogs...
     
  5. -RPN-

    -RPN- Legendary Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    This makes me sick! I feel for you guys who have an extensive collection of these species.
    I can only guess you have more toxic house plants than these frogs.
     
  6. frogger

    frogger Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    Crocus bulbs contain the deadly carcinogen and mutagen cochicine. The common garden plant, castor beans contain one of the most deadly poisons known, ricin. Poisonous if inhaled, injected or eaten. Spies use ricin to murder one another in Europe. I guess these along with a couple of hundred other deadly alien species of garden/foliage plants like philodendrons and deifenbachias will dissapearing from store shelves this spring in BC too.

    Potatoes, left in the sun to go green, are poisonous as is the foliage of tomato plants. Being native to South America I suppose the food stores will have to forgo selling potatoes and tomatoes from now on. Can you imagine the fines they faces at $25,000 per bag?

    Belladonna with its appealing red berries in the fall and common cowslips - both invasive species with deadly cardiac drugs throughout their tissues will have to be uprooted across the province by legions of enforcement agents. Think of the jobs this legislation will create! The BC Government is on the job, working for the benefit of the people!!! Go you smart guys!!
     
  7. frogger

    frogger Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    ATTENTION BC VOTERS

    Instances of unscrupulous merchants causing public endangerment by offering any of the aformentioned, dangerous, alien species for public sale should be immediately brought to the attention of the proper authorities.

    In addition it is your civic duty to ensure that those merchants are prosecuted to the full extent of the law for violations of the act.

    Tomatoes are in fact the seed pods of a poisonous plant (all members of the
    Solanaceae contain alkyloids) which could become established in the wild in BC and seeds are covered under the act. Be vigilent!

    BTW California poppies are members of the genus Papaver (heroin is derived from another member of the genus, Papaver somniferum). Does the provincial BC government allow or promote the growing of this alien species on public lands? Could it potentialy escape and grow wild? Surely dispersal of the seeds of this alien species could be considered as reckless disregard of pulbic safety.

    Yes, it's a good thing they got those nasty dart frog species covered. You wouldn't want them escaping and going off to attack children or other members of the public. Too bad they didn't do their homework first though.

    -Reminds one of that old saying - "It's not wise to test the depth of the river with both feet".
     
  8. MartyA

    MartyA Contributing Member

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  9. Shade71

    Shade71 Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    If you want detailed information beyond what's on the website you'll have to wait.

    My MLA said "Gordon Campbell and Co. have not released the policy details yet. I will watch for them and send them your way".
     
  10. MartyA

    MartyA Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    I hope other people are also trying to get phyllobates off of this list.
     
  11. heals

    heals Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    Just making sure I am reading this right. It's just the three phyllobates species that are banned so far right?

    Either way totally sucks. Welcome to government not paying attention to actual science / facts and just jumping on the what will make it seem like we're doing something good for the public boat.

    Make me annoyed... but remember there's no such thing as global warming too... o_O
     
  12. pete arrows

    pete arrows Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    I hope everyone is trying to do something about this crazy law.
    Peter
     
  13. snakemaster

    snakemaster Member

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  14. Shade71

    Shade71 Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    Does anyone know if it's even possible to even get wild-caught terribilis anymore?
    I'm assuming this must be what they're concerned about since it's such common knowledge that captive raised are harmless.

    On the IUCN site it states 2 things...
    1. It sometimes occurs in very small numbers in international trade.
    2. Decree INDERENA No. 39 of 9 July, 1985, forbids the collection of Phyllobates spp. from the wild in Colombia for breeding (or other) purposes.

    I have a meeting booked with my MLA on April 6, so I'm looking for as many facts and figures as I can get.
     
  15. pete arrows

    pete arrows Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    what is the aquariums position on this issue. can they not help? I asked dendromad a few days ago as he works at the aquarium, but he has not replied yet.
    Peter
     
  16. Shade71

    Shade71 Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    I was thinking the aquarium (at least officially) is onboard with the government since the government announced the new legislation during a photo-op at the aquarium.
     
  17. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    Shade71, I want to see more pics of your setup
     
  18. Dendromad

    Dendromad Contributing Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    It is, the director was involved to some extent (what I don't know) in the development of the legislation. Whom was consulted on what animals were to be included on the list I do not know. I was as suprised as everyone else they where included and didn't find out unitl the announcement. I tried to get to speak with the minister at the time but he was caught up with the press so didn't get an opportunity.

    sorry for not getting back to you Peter. Unfortunately due to the involvement of the aquarium I am unable to make a comment publicly on here.
     
  19. t-rose

    t-rose Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    If wild caught terriblis is the problem then the government should be working with CITES to make sure that there is not importation of the species or better yet no exportation from the originating country to Canada... Importation from anywhere else would be safe (as long as they specified that it could not be shipped to Canada within x number of months of being wild caught) as the toxin levels would have fallen by the time the arrived in Canada. Regulating a species in one province but not the whole country creates problems.
     
  20. Shade71

    Shade71 Member

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    Re: Controlled alien species

    So I received a response from a member of the "Controlled Alien Species Team" at BC Fish and wildlife.
    I had just asked for the reasoning behind banning the 3 phyllobates species.

    This was the reply...

    Thank you for your email regarding the controlled alien species (CAS) regulation as it relates to the Genus Phyllobates. All three species of Phyllobates on the CAS list are the only species of poison dart frogs known to retain their toxicity for extended periods in captivity. They may lose their toxicity eventually, but exactly how and when this process takes place is not well characterized. Therefore in the interest of public safety, we need to assume that these frogs are dangerously toxic for at least a certain period. The Ministry of Environment has therefore taken the appropriate precautions by listing these three species as CAS. Most species of Dentrobatid frogs lose their toxicity in captivity relatively quickly which is why not all poison dart frogs are on the CAS list. This means there are potentially hundreds of species of Dendrobatid frogs that can be kept by frog pet owners.

    If you had any one of the three species of Phyllobates on or before March 16, 2009, you will be able to apply for a possession permit for them. There is no cost for these permits and they will be available between November 01, 2009 and March 31, 2010.


    At least it's kind of reassuring about low probability of other species of darts being added to the list in the future.
     

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