NEW INFO DART FROG RESTRICTIONS IN ALBERTA

Discussion in 'Dart Frogs General' started by dawndj, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. dawndj

    dawndj Contributing Member

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    We are reeling today from a letter we received from office of the Alberta fish and wildlife. Very sad news indeed. We will carry on this fight with the continued support of our fellow dart froggers. Alberta is just the first province to adopt this policy, other province's will surly follow. This is EVERYONES fight. To quote a fellow Alberta frogger " CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE FROGS OF WAR'





    Good afternoon Dawn and Lucas,



    The department is going to maintain the current status of poison arrow frogs as Controlled Animals under the Alberta Wildlife Regulations. I realize that this is not what you had hoped would happen.



    The department completed a review of the status of all of the species listed as Controlled Animals in 2013. Last reviewed in 1997, the decision to review the regulations in 2013 was necessary in order to update the regulations and remain as current as possible to address taxonomic changes.



    Poison arrow frogs are a focus of major phylogenetic studies and are subject to frequent taxonomic changes. New species are being discovered regularly. This poses challenges to regulators who strive to keep relevant legislation current with ever-changing taxonomy. The decision to list the families of Dendrobatidae and Aromobatidae, rather than to limit the listing to the genus Phyllobates, was applied to recognize that approximately 1/3 of all of the poison arrow frog species are considered poisonous or noxious, that there was a reasonable probability that new species of unknown toxicity would be discovered and therefore ensure that the Wildlife Regulations could be kept more current.



    The department is not aware of any evidence-based certification system for differentiating between captive versus wild-caught specimens. The concern with respect to poison concentrations in a variety of species of poison arrow frogs and potential risk to the public remains. Wild-caught frogs are found in the hobby market. While unfortunate, some irresponsible poison arrow frog owners are accessing alkaloid food sources for their frogs.



    The management of exotic pets in Alberta is becoming increasingly complex as access to species from around the world increases and consumers desire to own and interact with wild species within their own homes. I acknowledge that the initial communication and consultation on the review of the Controlled Animals list could have been more comprehensive and we will endeavour to improve on our efforts going forward. We have improved the public accessibility to the Controlled Animals list on the department’s web site at: http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlif...s/wildlife-import-export-permits/default.aspx.



    For those people currently in possession of restricted poison arrow frogs, the department will offer a grace period until April 30, 2015 to allow people to divest of the frogs. Previous efforts to utilize a grandfather permit system were not successful and will not be implemented.



    I acknowledge the enthusiasm and investment that amphibian owners show toward their hobby and encourage owners to continue to enjoy other species of amphibians that can be lawfully possessed in Alberta.



    Attached is a letter which will be mailed to those people known to be in possession of poison arrow frogs. Also attached is an awareness poster that you may post in your business.





    Mark Heckbert


    Fish and Wildlife Policy Manager

    Fish and Wildlife Policy Branch

    Alberta Environment & Sustainable Resource Development

    Box 1500, High Prairie, AB T0G 1E0
    Phone: (780) 523-6517

    Fax: (780) 523-5757


    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
     

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  2. mwringe

    mwringe Member

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  3. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    Fucking bullshit
     
  4. Dendromad

    Dendromad Contributing Member

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    Wow, just wow. Feel sorry for you guys. They are one of the most studied amphibians and new deadly species are unlikely to be found and if so probably in the Phyllobates genus, and how long have poison frogs been in the hobby around the world and how many deaths or injuries have resulted from keeping them in captivity, zero as far as I'm aware. Absolutely ridiculous decision.
     
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  5. H2-0

    H2-0 Moderator Staff Member

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    This makes absolutely no sense! Like Dendromad said, there have been ZERO issues with our frogs for decades. Why the hell are they trying to make work for themselves?

    They better start finding owners of every poisonous plant because those plants are clearly a danger to the public as well.

    Anyone thoght of contacting GoPublic on cbc? It's a long shot but it might get us somewhere.
     
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  6. K-Dart

    K-Dart Member

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    Well what a bummer and its not like the new species ever come to canada either let alone in Alberta... They won't be swarmed by a thousand new frogs each year lol.
    An evidence based certification system could be import dates. If the frogs are imported they are more likely to be wild caught...
    As far as wild caught frogs, I've only sourced Pumilios and auratus as wild caught. Tinctorius,ranitomeyas and others are ALOT harder to come by wild caught.

    + I don't know who gives alkaloid based diets to their frogs to make them toxic. Really thats just an absurd way to justify their bullshit.

    I'm wondering if mantellas beeing mildy toxic ( lickable even) are considered for this ban as well?
    Could be a nice consolation prize. I'd have all the mantellas possible just to stick it to them.
     
  7. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    This letter just has misleading information, feeding alkaloids? Really ? again a field swipe or 2 in the field cant bring toxins back... again Canada or evwn Alberta doesnt have the same Alkaloids as in Panama. Like give us a break they have no blasted information to back up their claims.
    How do they not know frogs are coming in? And to who? Fuck off its called Cities weeks upon weeks of getting one of those filled out and processed... again they cant do their job.
    Back in 2013 there was no public announcement that this was taking place, its just the old saying of easier to ask forgiveness then to ask for permission.
    Everyone on this board should help in this fight. Give this Mark Heckbert a call flood his voice mail, send emails just something to show that this wont be tolerated because thwy cant get their facts straight and are just back peddling because they made a mistake!
    To date there has been over 200 species of amphibians to go extinct in just my lifetime of 31 years. We're the best chance to give back to the world in giving these guys a chance to survive for are childrens and their childrens children to see these creatures with their own eyes in the future.
    Just yesterday I was reading a report of a frog being re introduced into Australia due to a few people working with that species...
    We need to voice are concerns guys and girls.
     
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  8. dawndj

    dawndj Contributing Member

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    It is clear that they don't care what science has to say. I am distraught about this situation. :-( If anyone knows any lawyers or is a lawyer that may be willing to help us? We believe this is very unjust and can not believe this is happening in a democratic society like Canada.

    Dawn
     
  9. pinkjello

    pinkjello Contributing Member

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    what do they expect people to do with their frogs? And if they dont find new homes,, then what..they will come in and destroy them. This makes me ill...
    Im sorry dawn..:(
     
  10. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    There's multiple solutions, people with research license, the zoo, selling out of province is our best plan.
    So heads up Canada some stupid crazy deals will be in the classifieds soon enough!
     
  11. rastaangel

    rastaangel Member

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    As sad as it is that this happens it might be the onl way to get some sexed pairs within driving distance of sk
     
  12. K-Dart

    K-Dart Member

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    The thing is with CITES, only a permit issued from the exporting country is required.
    Canada as a whole does not require a CITES (issued here) or an import permit for amphibians.
     
  13. pinkjello

    pinkjello Contributing Member

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    Please note: I have NO idea if this is meaningful...

    but I found in BC - Wildlife Act of BC, possess controlled alien species permit application for personal use. Now that the frogs are on the controlled alien list...would filling out a permit to have them for personal use work? Would Alberta have the same paperwork as BC? Link below..

    http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/applications/docs/cas-personal-permit.pdf


    "The department is going to maintain the current status of poison arrow frogs as Controlled Animals under the Alberta Wildlife Regulations"
     
  14. Drew

    Drew Administrator Staff Member

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    Simply shocked over here, just a matter of time till it goes nation wide.
     
  15. pinkjello

    pinkjello Contributing Member

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    on another note..if there is such an application that can be filled out, why would this person not identify that there is such a thing?
     
  16. K-Dart

    K-Dart Member

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    Yeah maybe they can do like in France, were you need a permit of capacity to show you are able to keep these species.

    From my understanding a controlled animal is not the same as a prohibited animal like venomous snakes or crocodilians and such which are illegal in canada.
    We would need someone from the gov to clarify this for us.
     
  17. K-Dart

    K-Dart Member

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    What a weird policy it is to not require any import documents for amphibians, no wonder they don't know what comes in the country if they don't check at all.
    Imagine if the same policy was to be applied with mammals....
     
  18. Lumpy

    Lumpy Contributing Member

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    Anyone asked for financial compensation for our legally purchased pets prior to 2013 or whatever date they decided to flip the switch.
    Maybe it is time to get the media involved.

    Sent from my space ship orbiting Mars.
     
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  19. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    Hey guys lets just see what happens in the next few days, everyone is scared and pissed off as I am. We do have some key people fighting this and im sure something will come about. Lets just settle down and not go crazy.
    Fyi lets not get the media involved until its a last ditch effort.
     
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  20. MarkPepper

    MarkPepper Member

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    To Clarify about CITES, Canada does not require a Canadian issued import CITES for Appendix II animals, like Dendrobatidae. However, Canada, like every other CITES country, DOES require a CITES EXPORT permit from the country of origin (export country) This CITES export permit must accompany the shipment at the time of landing in Canada, and be presented to Canadian Customs along with the B13, invoices, airwaybill etc. The CITES permits are sent to Environment Canada (CITES) where records are indeed kept of every CITES species that enters or leaves Canada along with the quantities. Domestic trade, province to province requires no CITES permit. The notion that it is hard to tract new species on the market is moot, as that can be easily ascertained by double checking with CITES in Ottawa.
     
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