Frog on glass

Discussion in 'Dart Frogs General' started by SLDDave, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    This guy let me follow him around with the camera. He was pretty brave I'd have to say! Here are some that turned out well
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  2. afterdark

    afterdark Administrator Staff Member

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    Wow - his/her colouration is great! :shock:

    Do you supplement with anything for that? ie. Naturose, paprika, etc...
     
  3. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    Maybe a tiny bit of paprika, I really want to try natrurose but I can't find it. Do you guys know where to get it?
     
  4. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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  5. bittner_344

    bittner_344 Member

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    very nice man! love the belly shots!
     
  6. flytrap

    flytrap Member

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    Beautiful frog!

    Now I KNOW I want to get into this hobby :)

    Thanks for sharing your photos.
     
  7. Kwazarr

    Kwazarr Contributing Member

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    First off, slddave, you have a stunning looking frog! Just beautiful! Secondly, you mentioned about using paprika as a supplement for aiding in colouration...how does paprika help that? Any ideas? Just curious!

    Cheers,

    Ross.
     
  8. Brock

    Brock Contributing Member

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    This is from a post I found helpful on Dendroboard.com that explains how the different pigments work, and their names and info.

    What I get out of it, in a nutshell, is that Paprika will help with yellow colours, and NatuRose will help with red and orange, and make blues a bit more 'purple'.

    http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ht=paprika

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    Here is a basic low down of how color works in our frogs... there are 3 types of pigmentation cells in the skin... melanophores (blacks, browns), xanthophores (yellows, oranges, reds), and iridiphores (blues, whites, "metallic" colors). The layering of these cells is what produces the colors and patterns we see in our frogs.

    Melanophores - pretty straight forward. These not only create blacks and browns, but can "layer" over other pigment cells to make shades of those colors, or whole new colors.

    Iridiphores - the most interesting to me, as these are not really pigments in the traditional sense as they are actually crystalline structures that reflect light. How the structure is set up determines which color(s) it reflects... these are traditionally responsible for whites and blues, but technically can produce any color just about. If the color on your frogs seems metallic rather than a flat color, iridiphores are involved. This is why I believe the reds/oranges/yellows in the thumbnail group are not nearly as diet dependent... they are metallic, and thus seem to be made up more of iridiphores than xanthophores!

    Xanthophores - the only pigment in which there seems to be significant dietary influence. This pigment is made up of carotenes, and the specific kinds (there are hundreds) vary by the specific frogs. These tend to show up in our frogs as paler coloration of the reds, yellows, and oranges in CB and LTC animals. We aren't making the color better than it was, but rather trying to make it like it is for them in the wild.

    Peprika is only one supplement with a limited amount of carotenes in it (more towards the orange scale), so it only helps so much. Naturose is a fish supplement a few of us are starting to use, which is more towards reds. The complicated thing about all this is that the stuff that we are supplementing is actually something the frogs have a toxicity sensitivity to, so you have to be careful using it. Peperika you can't really go wrong, but the others need to be used with care.

    Here are some related topics as this has been discussed a number of times in the past, in particular with E. tricolor/anthonyi and D. pumilio, the two most well known frogs to have the color issues:
    tricolor's stripes and color
    Tadpole Diet and Color

    On another note, you'll often hear about people supplementing for color with frogs like azureus where the color became more vibrant... this is not because the supplementing did anything to the iridiphores making them blue, but affecting the xanthophores which added a tint of red to the color... giving them a slightly violet cast that in certain lights makes them more vibrant looking.


    Crickets are easier to get the supplementation into the frogs with my experience. Basically, you can not only dust the crickets with supplement powder containing peprika/naturose, but also gut load them as well, which you can't do with adult flies (but you can do with the larvae). I feed my crickets sweet potatoes and dark romaine lettuce, which was how the crickets at NAIB were fed during the time I volunteered there. The interesting thing to note is that there were pumilio that had been there a number of years, bribri I believe, that were an ugly brown/orange, but began to color up very well on a diet heavy in sweet potato fed pinheads. They never reached the blood red that some could get due to the specific source of carotenes (orange, rather than red) but there was significant difference. You can get a similar affect by stuffing the FF media full of carotene sources and feeding out the larvae (which tend to look pink). Both FFs and crickets are the best feeder insects we have to dust with supplements, so there is little difference on that bit.
     
  9. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    Wow, that's quite the post! When I said I used paprika I should have been more clear. I feed paprika to my cobalts for their yellow and sometimes I use the same dust cup of fruit flies to feed my other frogs. Sometimes, not often, paprika makes its way to the vents. Now these guys have kind of a fade to yellow as the red reaches thier butt, so it may help but I don't do it often.

    This brings me back to my previous question, does anyone know where to get natrurose?
     
  10. Brock

    Brock Contributing Member

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    From my understanding, it's been used primarily for bringing out colour in prize fish, and is a key ingredient in making fish flakes....sooo you SHOULD be able to find it at an aquatic shop, that specializes in fancy fishes.

    If not, you can order some on eBay, like I'm about to.
     
  11. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    you also briefly mentioned supplenmenting azureus, are talking about paprika and natrurose still or is ther some other supplement?
     
  12. Brock

    Brock Contributing Member

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    The guy who wrote all that on dendroboard (username: KeroKero, by the way) said that the NatuRose will develop sort of an indigo/violet overtone to the azureus if supplemented.

    The NatuRose enhances red pigment. So if you take your primary colours, and see what red does to them...

    Add red to RED...becomes more saturated...that is to say, if you were painting the frog with a paint brush..the more you layer on red, the darker it becomes, as compared to a thin layer that would be fairly dull/transparent.

    Add red to YELLOW = orange...so Naturose will bring out orange, and may slightly darken or brighten up yellow (though, paprika is a yellow enhancer, so if you want your yellows out, add paprika.)

    Add red to BLUE = violet...this one's a bit tricky, because blue is the dominant factor here. So when you have a blue azureus, and you add a bit of red pigment in there, the 'crystaline structures' that KeroKero explains will be slightly influenced by the NatuRose, and when blue and red mix, they make violet.

    I'm still experimenting myself, but I find it very fascinating, and will be trying it on other animals as well!
     
  13. SLDDave

    SLDDave Contributing Member

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    Nice, PS Kerokero is a girl
     
  14. Brock

    Brock Contributing Member

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    :oops:


    Anyways, can I see some pics of your cobalts that you specifically use the paprika for?
     
  15. PummyLeo

    PummyLeo New Member

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    nice shots yo.
     

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