BYH born with his legs doiing the splits.

Discussion in 'Health & Disease' started by dewit, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. dewit

    dewit Member

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    I just came back from a 5 week vacation, and my mom had been looking after all the frogs. Turned out a couple new BYH's have gotten out of the water, but this one has his legs all messed up. I m almost positive that the best thing to do is to euthanize it. but it has been eating and moving around for 2 weeks now.I thought it'd be best to see what you guys think. Also while i was away one of my azureus escaped :'( so if anyone has a male adult azureus they want to sell let me know. IMG_39941.jpg
     
  2. dewit

    dewit Member

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    little side note. he can move his legs, he can move them at the hips but now in the other joints.
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Administrator Staff Member

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    poor bugger, euthanize him and get him out of his misery
     
  4. dutchscum

    dutchscum Contributing Member

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    too bad he was a looker too :( all part of the game sadly
     
  5. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    Were you having some pretty hot weather out East?
     
  6. Knagy

    Knagy Member

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    Exactly the same thing is happening to some of my tadpoles as well! I was just about to post on the subject...:)

    Mine are Mantella Auraniaca tadpoles about the stage of popping their front legs (some already have). This little guy has his hind legs sticking out at a right angle to its body, and he does not seem able to bend it. There are two more in the batch showing similar symptoms although not this severe.

    I'm hoping has ideas on what could be causing it. I agree that putting them out of their misery is probably the best thing to do, but as I can ee it in a few other tadpoles as well, I am hoping to find a way to prevent it from happening again.
    Tadpole.jpg
    Kristina
     
  7. dutchscum

    dutchscum Contributing Member

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    i just saw that post on dendro :)
     
  8. frogfreak

    frogfreak Legendary Member

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    I've never seen anything like it...:(
     
  9. Lance

    Lance Legendary Member

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    What your seeing are the legs fused at the knee joint, I seen this a long time ago when I first got into the hobby. If I remember correctly this is caused by water being to warm.
     
  10. Knagy

    Knagy Member

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    That is really interesting! I have the frogs in an air conditioned house (23degreesC) and don't add any heating or lighting (other then natural light from a skylight) to the containers. Instead of too warm, I have been worried about too cool. What is your take on optimal water temperature for Mantella tadpoles?
     
  11. Knagy

    Knagy Member

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    Yes, yes, so sorry to double-post, but....I posted on Dendroboard first and then came over here and saw Dewit's post and could not resist replying. I am still interested in hearing from anyone who have any idea what could be causing this and what I could do to prevent it from happening again.
     
  12. dewit

    dewit Member

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    I will euthanize him first thing tomorrow morning. Sadly :( if anyone does have more infor on it. I would be very interested to hear.
     
  13. dewit

    dewit Member

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    And yea i believe we did have hot weather. I was away but i think it was around 30 degrees
     
  14. Edward

    Edward Member

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    There are actually multiple potential causes for this developmental abnormality. What you are seeing is what is known as a rotation of the joint at the hip, and the ankle of the frog which can either be primary (not caused by a secondary abnormality) or secondary (caused by an abnormality ( bone bridge, skin flap, etc). The rotation of the joint(s) can prevent movement of the limbs (in the primary case and in many of the secondary case, the joints do not have to be fused). As we see with other Dendrobates ssp, that inhabit similar temperature regimens as D. tinctorius, they prefer a temperature of 78 F (25 C) for tadpole deposition sites, so I wouldn't expect to see tinctorius metamorphs have temperature induced developmental abnormalities unless the water in which the tadpole was kept was significantly over 30 C (30 C is the start of developmental abnormalities for temperature species....). Is there a record of the water temperature? Keep in mind that evaporation can significantly reduce the temperature of the water.

    Back to the first sentence, there are multiple potential causes ranging from nutritional issues, chemical exposure, damage, parasite infection, water quality (to name a small number of potential causes).

    For those interested in some more information I suggest starting here
    http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/fact_sheets/pdfs/frog.pdf

    http://www.vtwaterquality.org/bass/docs/bs_amphibianmalform.pdf

    Some comments

    Ed
     
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  15. afterdark

    afterdark Administrator Staff Member

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    This is why I love having Ed as a member here! Thanks very much for the great info as usual, sir.
     
  16. dewit

    dewit Member

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    thanks very much for all the info ed. its very interesting for sure. luckily thats the only froglet that came out like that. and sadly hes gone now :(
     
  17. boabab95

    boabab95 Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the info Ed!

    On a side note:
    Ed's a member on here!?
     
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  18. Phyllobates azureus

    Phyllobates azureus Member

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    My first Auratus froglet ha something similar to that except on the front legs, and he was the only one whose water got very hot.
    It's been cooler since then and all of my Auratus tadpoles and froglets since have been perfect.
     

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